12. Cypress Street

[00:00:20] Welcome to another episode of Murder Link. I'm Katie and I'm here with my dad, Jody. We are recording another episode of our podcast where we share with you our personal connections to murder and we invite you to share yours with us. Hi, Dad. How are you doing today? Jody McHugh I'm doing great. It's another beautiful day. It's 70 degrees in Atlanta. I am so happy that the weather is warming up.

[00:00:47] Jody McHugh I'm glad you're not cold. I have to say it is like it's February. It's the end of February and it feels like spring in England and everyone's saying it's a fluke because it never feels warm until like April or May. So I am I'm with you on the sun. And yeah, I'm just so glad that we're here recording another episode. Can't wait to hear what story you have for us today. Before we get started, I just want to say that we have been releasing episodes on Thursdays.

[00:01:17] When we started looking at our schedule, we realized that I would be recording quite late at night because I'm in the UK and my dad's in Atlanta. So we're switching it up and we're going to be releasing future episodes on Saturday. So Dad, what's been happening in your side of the world? Not a whole lot. You know, a lot of political turmoil over here in America.

[00:01:39] Jody McHugh I know, I know. I was just saying that we won't get too far into politics, but I saw that President Trump had a cabinet meeting with Elon Musk in it. And his shirt said tech support, which I thought was quite an interesting choice. And we'll leave it at that. I don't know what to say. It's like it's like a really bad film. Yes, it is. And nothing you can do about it, but just hope for the best.

[00:02:09] Yeah, absolutely. For the next four years. Ben said to me today, he was like, would you ever move back to America? I was like, not at least for four years. Not that we're thinking about it, but I do want to come back, at least for a visit. I saw that Atlanta has the Shaky Knees Festival, which I've never been to. Oh, yes. And there are some really good headliners this year. So Blink-182 is playing. They were like my favorite band growing up. I think you and I must have gone to maybe five or six of those shows.

[00:02:37] Every time they came to Atlanta, we were there. Who else? The Black Keys, Alabama Shakes, Deftones, Sublime is there. You sound like an advertisement for Shaky Knees. I wish I was. Please give us free tickets. I have a feeling that you're going to be there. I'd like to be there. It's just continuing down the advertisement route. It is September 19th to 21st, I think.

[00:03:06] And the Lumineers, do you know the Lumineers, Dad? Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. So I've always liked them, but not enough to like see them. And it just never like really aligned. They're touring in the UK now. I don't have anyone to go with. I'm like asking friends if they like them. They're going to be in Savannah on the 27th of September. So I'm like, this is the perfect opportunity to go home, go to Shaky Knees, record some episodes of the podcast in person. Go see the Lumineers.

[00:03:37] But I have to be able to like fund it. And the plane tickets are quite expensive at the moment. So we'll see. Maybe I'll be seeing you in a few months time. Well, I suspect in September we will see you. I think you've had practice that when I want something, I work to get it. Usually. Yeah. Hopefully you'll come with me. My dad, for anyone that's listening, is like my old concert buddy. We've been to the Rolling Stones. We've been to Roger Waters. We've been to so many different concerts together.

[00:04:06] So it would be great to go with you, dad. And I'm hoping that this is in our future. Well, I got to say, we took you to your first concert was America, the group. And we pushed you in your little buggy. I think you were like two, two years old, maybe three. At Piedmont Park here in Atlanta. Is that the one where I clapped? There's a story where. Yes. Yeah. So what was that story? Oh, it was just when everyone started clapping. You were so cute how you leaned up out of your buggy and started looking around.

[00:04:35] You didn't know what was going on. Oh, right. It was just very cute. And I've loved concerts ever since. So I've actually been in touch with Nicole to see if she'd be interested in going. And I just have to say, because we haven't spoken. And I'm also interested in the We Were Young tour in Las Vegas, but those tickets are quite expensive. They're probably sold out. And I think you and I have been to Vegas enough times together already. But you never know. You never know. I might hit the lottery. Anyways, music is not why we're here today.

[00:05:05] Although in a way, I kind of wish it was because that was fun. We are here to explore another murder link. And dad, today you're sharing one of your stories, which is one I've known forever. And we've actually kind of worked together on this in a weird way. So I'll let you take it from here. Well, once again, I'm doing another connection that I have to a story. This connection started when I was a child.

[00:05:32] So the murder didn't actually happen until 78, but I knew who the murderer was since childhood. As I explained in previous stories, I grew up in Riverdale, Georgia, about 10 miles south of Atlanta. Well, we moved in there about 1967. When we did, it was a neighborhood of about 200 houses. It was being built along the Flint River, excuse me.

[00:05:58] And so as we moved there, the houses were being built after hours. About the fifth house down, a family moved in, the Eckert family. Their youngest son was Nick Eckert, and he was my brother Mitch's age. So through time, he and Mitch became good friends, and I was like their little tag alone. I was two years younger. So as the years moved on, we began hearing these stories about Nick being adopted.

[00:06:28] Nick would even tell you he was adopted. But it wasn't until he was 14 years old that we heard the whole story from his brother Randy. And Randy explained to me how Nick's father had an affair, and Nick was the product of that affair. Well, Nick's Miss Eckert adopted him.

[00:06:51] She decided to raise him, I believe, because he was the half-child of her children, the half-brother, excuse me, of her children. Right, okay. So Nick's dad had an affair with a woman, and he was born. But Nick's father was already married, and him and his wife had Randy. And so that family took him in. So he lived with his dad and his stepmom, basically.

[00:07:19] But he was raised almost as one of their own. Yes, Randy was one of his brothers. He had other siblings also. But that's pretty much it, yes. Did he know anything? Do you know if he knew anything about, like, his birth mom, or was she just not in the picture? Oh, yes. She lived in Marrow, maybe five miles away. He didn't see her until he was a teenager, but he went to see her several times after. She doesn't live in that house anymore. I don't even know if she's alive anymore. Oh, wow.

[00:07:47] That's interesting, though, because usually back in those days, a child would stay with the mom, right? Oh, yes. Or be adopted out because it was an illegitimate child is what you would refer to a child that was born out of wedlock. Wow, that's so crazy now because now it's completely different. Right. So there would have been stigma on his mom.

[00:08:10] And I suppose stigma on, of course, like nowadays there would, too, on Nick's dad and Nick's dad's wife, Nick Eckert's stepmother who adopted him because her husband had an affair. I'm sorry, Nick's wife? Sorry, Nick's dad's wife. Nick's dad's wife, yes. Yeah, because she had an affair. Okay. Okay. So it's kind of like a secret. Got it. So he was adopted. Yes.

[00:08:38] So Nick's mother, even though she had adopted him, you know, you would expect her to at least show a lot of love toward him. And she did not. You could tell she was pretty mean toward him, especially in particular the way she always referred to him as Nick. She never referred to him as son. And as a matter of fact, she would refer to him as Nick Eckert quite often. And it was always in a mean tone.

[00:09:03] So once we were explained to us that he was adopted, it was like something clicked inside. You realized, oh, yeah, she's mean to him. So but anyway, next door to Nick was a young man named Jody McWilliams. We referred to him as Big Jody because I was Little Jody. And when Jody moved in, I got to say I was not happy because I'd never met another Jody before. I thought I was the only one in the world.

[00:09:35] Anyway, he was a lot older than I was. I really didn't know him very good myself. But in 1978, Big Jody was 18 years old. Nick was about 16 and they started hanging out together. That was after Big Jody had bought a Plymouth Charger Roadrunner Edition car. And I mean, this car was beautiful. I loved this car. It was a muscle car. You would hear it three blocks away coming up. And man, Jody would squeal those tires in a minute.

[00:10:03] But I love this car. But it didn't take long before Jody taught Nick how to shoot up drugs. Jody was a needle addict at that time. And he eventually taught Nick everything. And being a drug addict will lead you into terrible things, which is exactly what happened in this situation. This is the story of the murder of Robert Creamy.

[00:10:45] How you doing? Hey, when you're old, you'll get it. All right. I'm trying to quit too. All right. Okay. We're back. But I just want to say that we're talking about people being addicted to drugs. And I know a lot of your stories. And you were sitting here telling me during the break that you're trying to quit coffee. And I just think that's so noble of you. Well, seriously, it's not good for someone at my age.

[00:11:13] I mean, really, coffee is not good for you. Caffeine, is it? All right. I love your commitment to your health, Dad. Okay. And I said I'm trained. Let's keep doing that. As you take a sip. Show everybody your mug that we got from Athens. Oh, I love my mug. It's Bowie Zeus. Is that the coolest? Very cool. Bowie Zeus. Thank you. Very cool. And as you can see, that gave me an opportunity to take one more sip of coffee. Perfect. Right. We're ready to get into it. Yes, ma'am.

[00:11:42] So early morning on July 7th, 1978, after Nick and Jody had run out of dope, they needed money. So Nick went home and borrowed his brother's gun. A little after 4 a.m., Nick and Jody headed to Atlanta. They immediately went to Cypress Street. It's just, it's located, I'd say, about three blocks from the Fox Theater. Cypress Street was a known hangout for sex male workers. It had several gay bars around then.

[00:12:12] And back then you could drive down the street. You'd see pimps, drug dealers, drug purchasers, sex workers, homeless people. You would see all kinds of people walking up and down the street there. Everyone knew that the cops wouldn't respond because it was that kind of people, at least not respond quickly anyway. And so, Dad, was it an area that you tried to avoid or you kind of knew don't go in that area if you're in Atlanta? Well, yes.

[00:12:40] But the thing was, just five years earlier, it was the hippie area. And you didn't have so much of the gay thing, but it started turning into the gay thing then. And then it turned into the male sex worker thing. And, you know, before then, it was the female sex workers, as far as I knew. So I'm just trying to say, I watched it morph from hippies to more of pimps and street people. And then it turned into what it is now, which is a really nice area, actually. Right.

[00:13:10] And I just want to clarify, because you mentioned that there were gay men there and male sex workers. And I think what we're talking about is what turned into an area of desperation. Because this isn't just people choosing as a choice to be sex workers, which is their right. This is people jonesing for their next fix, having nowhere to go, sleeping on the streets,

[00:13:36] and turning to that work as they see as their only option. And it's a vicious cycle. I think that's what you're saying. Is that right? Oh, exactly. That's exactly the kind of place it was. You would almost feel like it was the Bronx in 1972. It really had a rundown area or rundown look to it. Right. Okay.

[00:14:00] It's really interesting now, because now, I mean, there's so many interesting stories. There's, I don't know if you've heard this story, and it's a bit weird speaking to you about it. But there's a woman that's just set the record as someone who slept with the most men in one day. And she's really proud about it. And she's on the news. And I see your face. And that shows. No, I have not heard this story. That shows your views towards it. But now, sex work is viewed as a different thing, in a way. It's something that's less shameful.

[00:14:29] And so, when we're talking about something in the 70s, I think you said, I think it's important that we give that context for any younger listeners that maybe didn't see that kind of reality growing up. Yes. I just feel like that someone who may be in that field, that's their choice. But I feel like most people would not choose to go that direction. Yes. That's why I was making the face there.

[00:14:54] And I think it's important to remember that back then in the 70s, if you chose to be out of the closet, and you identified as someone that was gay, and that was your sexual orientation, it was much more likely to be something that was not accepted by your family. And people usually left the home, and it wasn't an accepted sexuality to have. You were disowned. Yeah, exactly.

[00:15:24] So, Cypress Street sounds like an area full of trouble and misfits, and people with lost hopes, and people with lost dreams, and desperation, and that type of thing. This is true, but once again, I'd like to say that it's totally changed now. It's upscale, nicer area, much nicer. You're more likely to see 30 to 35-year-old, higher income individuals there than anything else. Right. Okay.

[00:15:53] So, it's had a rejuvenation. But you were saying that Nick and Jody were heading to this area, probably because it's where they could get the money that they needed. Well, they could rob somebody easily without the police being in a hurry or being too concerned about responding. So, it fit their needs, basically. Oh, yes. As they pulled up to the intersection of Sixth and Cypress, Nick leaned out of the car with a gun,

[00:16:20] pointed it at a man whose name was Kenneth Whaley. He then pulled the trigger, and when it fired, Kenneth took off. Luckily, the bullet didn't hit him. You know, Kenneth went around the corner real quick to get away from them. Jody and Nick took off in the car. Jody gassed it. They did a block and came back one circle. And when they came back, Robert Creamer had just walked up to the same exact location, the same corner.

[00:16:50] And that's when Nick pulled the gun on him. Only this time, Nick shot him, jumped out, grabbed his wallet, jumped in the car, and they took off. Robert didn't even know what was going on. He didn't even know what had happened or anything. He was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. After the murder, Nick made it clear he could care less. He began to brag to anyone that would listen. Now, I didn't believe him at first, but a day or two later, I saw it on the news. You didn't see a lot of that back then.

[00:17:19] You know, it was Atlanta. Now, you see it a lot, but back then when it happened, and it fit the description that he had given me. I didn't remember it because I didn't keep all that information in my head. But at the time, I knew that's the one he did because it sounded just like what he had said. At that point, it really changed my perspective of Nick. Before then, Nick had been given a college that offered him free tuition. A scholarship.

[00:17:48] I think it was SCAD. It was some local art school. I believe it was SCAD. But anyway, so he had a two-year scholarship. And I mean, it was given to him like months earlier. And he went out and this was shooting dope and killing this guy. So it really showed me Nick was a true sociopath to just throw away everything and not care when he murdered this guy and brag about it. He didn't come back going, oh, my God. Oh, my God. You know what I mean? I messed up. He didn't act like that.

[00:18:19] So just a couple of things, because for anyone that doesn't know, I think SCAD is the Savannah College of Art and Design. It's a really prestigious art college slash university in Georgia. Was he an artist? Did you ever see his artwork, Dad? Oh, yeah. Nick's a very good artist. It was amazing what he could do before he was ever trained or anything. And he got his training in prisons, tattoos. So when he came out of prison, he was really good at it.

[00:18:48] I don't know, self-taught or somebody in there taught him, but he could really draw them in. Did he go to prison, you think, before this happened? Or you just mean later in life you saw this? Well, he was only 16 when this happened. Right. So, no, he didn't go to prison until years later. A couple of years later. I'm not sure. I think only like two or three, actually. And do you think, I know we're speculating here, but you say that he didn't have any empathy. You realize that he had the traits of a sociopath and all that type of thing.

[00:19:17] Do you think that is the drugs altering his psyche? Do you think it is maybe the way in which he was brought up kind of being like the black sheep and the mistake of the family? That could be it. But at the same time, just the fact that he was so ruthless, so cold-blooded. I think he was just born that way. I really do. Maybe his mother brought it out, but I think he was just that kind of person.

[00:19:47] You know, no sympathy for other people, no concern for other people kind of attitude. Yeah, and to kill someone over a wallet, you can point a gun at them and get their wallet without shooting. Right, without shooting them. I mean, come on, man. And what did he think? I don't know. Let's say he got $100. Yeah, especially in that area, too, because I'm assuming if you're walking down the street of that street, you're not going to have loads on you. You know, you're not going to.

[00:20:17] It wasn't full of wealthy people. If you're walking down that street, as we said earlier, you probably are there out of desperation. Yeah. Maybe hanging at one of the bars or something. But other than that, you're probably, if you're a male prostitute, street sex worker. Sex worker. I'm educating my dad, everyone. Yes, yes. Or if you're a female sex worker in that area, same thing. You're down on your luck.

[00:20:43] And then the drug dealers and the buyers and, you know, so yes, it's the people who are down on their luck. Right. Okay. Okay. So Richard Creamer has been shot. He's presumably dead. It's Robert Creamer. Robert Creamer. Thank you. He's presumably dead. What happens next? Well, it took 15 minutes for the police to arrive.

[00:21:07] I mean, once again, at 4 a.m. in the morning in Atlanta, that just shows that they weren't quick to respond to anything like that. There were two witnesses. Kenneth Whaley was one. There was another one, David Evans. But, you know, it was dark. They couldn't give a lot of description. But I don't know exactly what they said. I have not read that report. The police will not release that report. And you can't blame them.

[00:21:34] They have to hang on to that, you know, to confirm any information that's brought to them. But Robert was identified five days after the murder. Not a lot was known other than that, except according to police, he had been arrested in 1966 for shoplifting in New York and that he didn't have any family. He was actually buried in a pauper's grave in Atlanta. Wow. I wonder what his story is. Oh, yeah. I would love to find that out. But there's just no information.

[00:22:05] You can't find anything on him. Well, less than two months later, we moved out of the neighborhood. And through the years, I would still see Nick at mutual friends' houses and such. And he would brag about this murder and other things he did, especially in prison. There's things I wouldn't even discuss with people that he's told me that he did to other individuals in prison. So that, once again, confirms to me who he was at heart anyway.

[00:22:35] Okay. Okay. But let's back up for a second. Can we talk about what he went to prison for? Was it drug offenses? One was a burglary. I think it was burglary. Um, I'm not sure the, I think it was burglary two times, but I'm not sure of the second one. Okay. I'm not sure of this one exactly. I know one for sure was burglary. I know he got arrested in Florida where he, for a felony, where he attacked a woman, old lady snatching her purse.

[00:23:01] They put him on probation and he cut the, he had the little leg monitor on and he cut it off. Yeah. And he cut it off and ran and they never arrested him. He never got it. That was before everything was on computer. So I don't even know if they have a record of it or not. They probably do because he was on probation at that time. Hmm. But yeah, he had been arrested, but that was after this murder. But once again, the whole thing is just to explain what kind of person he truly was.

[00:23:31] Snatching old lady. He hurt her. He knocked her to the ground and hurt this lady down in Florida. Wow. It sounds like he was always in trouble and, um, making bad choices. Oh yeah. Always. We all make bad choices, but Nick was always. Yes. Yes. He never let go of the dope thing. He kept that, the needles and all. So in about 1994, he began telling me about another murder. He did. It took years to really find out with that murder. What really happened?

[00:24:02] With that case, Nick's mother. Nick's mother. Excuse me. Nick's. Nick's mother. He had spent years gathering evidence on both of these cases and presented it to law enforcement. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation profiled Nick.

[00:24:30] The city of Atlanta Police Department, after receiving all this information, stated, we can't question anyone without evidence. That was even after I'd given them a taped conversation between Nick and myself, where I tell Nick that people are talking about the two murders he committed, but they mixed them together. And Nick's response was, that makes it awesome that all these people know it. I mean, no denial, no nothing.

[00:24:58] And this tape was handed over to law enforcement. And, you know, for whatever reason, they decided it couldn't be used. But all I was asking for that was just an investigation to be started. I didn't expect them to say that would be enough. And I was more than willing to help them out. So maybe there was something they just decided. They just couldn't convict it. It is a 30-year-old case. I remember that. We actually went to, was it Atlanta Police Department, Fulton Police Department?

[00:25:28] And we spoke to the detectives there. And, yeah, they met with us. So they were somewhat interested. But for whatever reason, they decided not to pursue the case. And we say that being as respectful to the police as we can. It's one thing if we think we have enough evidence. But they didn't. And they have those reports that we don't have. So who knows what they say. Very true. You say that you spoke to Nick. You saw Nick at mutual acquaintances' houses.

[00:25:57] And he made that statement. That makes it awesome for all those people to know it. So it sounds like he was, in a weird way, proud of what he did. I don't know if that's fair. He was always bragging about the things he did, what he did in prison, the first murder, the second murder. He was always bragging about these things. Once again, it just all confirmed who he really is. You can't blame his mother.

[00:26:26] She was firm to a point of being mean. But at the same time, it wasn't enough to consider it abuse. And even if it was, I presume that Nick's siblings didn't grow up to be murderers. You know, I know you might have been treated differently. Do you... Have you stayed in touch with anyone in the family at all? His brother, Randy, but he died about four years ago. So other than that. And when's the last time that you saw Nick?

[00:26:57] It would be 10 years ago, approximately. He lived in Texas. So I don't know if he had came back to Atlanta for a few days for some reason and stopped by and seen me. Yeah. Terrible. I mean, he could be dead. Right. I do not know. I would point out, though, that he reminded me, or I was reminded of him watching the movie Cape Fear with Robert De Niro. There's a scene in there where Robert De Niro's doing pumping, you know, push pull-ups.

[00:27:27] And he's covered in tattoos and he's acting crazy. And I was like, that is Nick. That is Nick. In the movie, Robert De Niro presents himself as this religious person. And Nick liked to do that, too. Nick can quote all kinds of Bible quotes and stuff. He likes to come off like he's religious, deeply religious. Would you say that he's a clever man? Extremely intelligent. He could have easily succeeded in life. Easily. Oh, yeah. Nick's not just clever.

[00:27:57] He's extremely intelligent. It's interesting because I know that you only ever saw him in passing. I feel like I can't say for sure. I feel like I've met him. I know that we that I have met his children. I remember little Nick and also his daughter. Destiny. Destiny. Yeah. But maybe I don't know. It was I was so young. And I think it's one of those things.

[00:28:23] A lot of the stories, if you listen to the rest of our episodes, the stories that you shared out, they're based upon people that you met or knew through this period of time when you were growing up. Yes. And I grew up near that area, too. And so it's really interesting hearing you tell the stories because I can picture the places. I can imagine the people. Even it's like I was so young. I was probably like four or five that it might be a figment of my imagination.

[00:28:52] But it just feels so real. And I'm always amazed at what a colorful view you've been able to have on so many different experiences. And I'm always so grateful that I don't have that view as a child growing up because it sounds like the things of nightmares. Not that you would ever paint yourself as a victim, but it's quite a.

[00:29:17] Quite a lot of trauma that you've seen play out based on the people that, you know, and I know that he's not a friend, but he's someone that he was at a time because you were kids. And so to see people make decisions and it end up in this way. And I know that we're going to talk about Nick even more in another episode. It's just like, oh, my gosh, that is insane.

[00:29:40] Well, I'd like to point out, though, as a child, the world I was raised in, it was a blast. I could do whatever I want. I had the greatest childhood in that respect. But as an adult and raising my own child yourself, I wouldn't dare let you do and go through and, you know, experience the experiences I had. Yeah. Yeah, you're definitely more street smart than me based on the experiences that you've had. I have to say.

[00:30:11] Right. Well, it's nothing to brag about, but hey, you stay happy is what it is. You realize other people had it worse. And there's a lot of people that wish they had your life, no matter how hard your life is. It's just the way you got to look at it. It's good advice. Really good advice. So in terms of this murder, I mean, Robert Creamer has been buried. We don't know if his family was notified.

[00:30:36] We don't know anything about him, really, except for the fact that the murder took place. Nick was never arrested for the murder. And he continued living his life. And he may still be alive today. This is true. And probably still bragging to other people about how he did it. It's really interesting because if it would have been a different victim, it might have or it would have been covered differently.

[00:31:05] I think like, for example, if there was a family that knew and I'm sure he must have had some relative somewhere. But back then you can't trace it back. There wasn't the Internet. Those webs weren't out. There's no family pushing for that investigation. And it just sounds like it just kind of got buried. Oh, without a doubt.

[00:31:27] But also remember at the time of the murder that I'm sure it wasn't just the police who would not be very concerned. Even like the news media, once they got a call and were told to go to Cypress Street, they knew what the area was like. So how much priority was given to a story like that? How often was it played? How much time was it given? So and maybe I'm wrong. But back then, a gay man being murdered on Cypress Street.

[00:31:57] I call him a gay man because he was that was a prostitute. Sex worker area. Excuse me. I'm learning. Yeah, no, it's fine. It's fine. I would imagine it's the equivalent of someone being of the police before recently, when I think they've taken more of a role, being called to skid row. You know, they might have had a presence around the perimeter.

[00:32:24] But every time they know in there that every time they get a call, they know that it's going to be trouble. And I actually remember you telling me a story about, I think it was Brian, who was working up in some area of Chicago. And you said that the police had warned him that they don't come back to this specific area. Because again, after dark, he was painting a house or something. And does this ring a bell? Am I making this up? Oh, yes. It was Randy Wetz, Nick's uncle.

[00:32:54] And he said the police, he was doing work at his apartment complex. And the police pulled up and said, hey, it's turning dark. I'm leaving. And I'm not coming back till the sun rises. Load that truck up and get out of here now. And Randy said he ran in and told everybody, come on out. We're getting out of here. The police said, leave. We're leaving. So the officer was letting him know we're not responding if we get a call out here after dark. Right.

[00:33:20] OK, so it's a very similar vibe, I think, to what we're talking about with Cypress Street. But I want to point out, gosh, this podcast is full of Nick's and Randy's. You said Nick's uncle. We are talking about a completely different Nick and Randy West is a completely different Randy. He's a lovely man. Not affiliated with the Nick, the murderer that we're discussing in this podcast. Remember, there's two Jody's.

[00:33:47] Two Jody's, multiple Randy's. Randy's. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. They didn't have a lot of. I don't know, uniqueness, different ideas when it came to names back in the day. I think everyone's named after their dad. A lot where my brother was. Yeah. Yeah. But his name was Art Artist. That's quite cool. Yeah. Right. So, Dad, we're going to hear about Nick again, right? Is that the next one? Yes, it is.

[00:34:17] It's the connection between these two. Once again, there's two stories that have a connection. And Nick. Has committed another murder in 94, as we spoke earlier. And we have a wealth of information on this murder. You do not want to miss this one. I am serious. This one's going to be a good one. It'll be a little longer, but we've got a lot of information on this story.

[00:34:42] I'm excited about this one because I think this is one that maybe you found out about after I moved to England. Or maybe, I don't know. I feel like I don't know this one as well. You hear stories growing up. Well, actually, you mean to say I got confirmation while you were in England that I had the correct murder? Yeah, perhaps. I don't know. I'm excited because I don't know the story. And so it'll be great for me too. Right, Dad. Anything else you want to say before we close this one out? No, that is it.

[00:35:11] I'm glad everybody viewed us today, not just audio. And I hope you come back next week. Great. Well, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of MurderLink. If you have your own murder stories that you would like to share with us, we'd love to hear them. Simply email hello at murderlink.com. Make sure that you listen to our previous episodes. Subscribe. We're going to be doing video episodes from now on, so we'd love to know what you think.

[00:35:36] And we look forward to seeing you next week where you will be able to hear a new episode on a Saturday. So check us out then and make sure that you tune in. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Thanks, everybody.