5. Appeal Denied

[00:00:19] Hi everyone and welcome to episode 5 of Murder Link. We are recording today from my home studio. It is the day before my dad leaves to go back to America, so it's a bit bittersweet, but we're really excited for this experience just to record together in person once again. Hi dad.

[00:00:40] Hey baby, how are you doing today?

[00:00:42] I'm doing alright. I hope that you're keeping the tears at bay. I know you're going to miss me lots.

[00:00:46] You know it. I love you so much.

[00:00:49] So yeah, we're super excited. So for anyone that's been following along, we actually recorded an episode with Claire, who is a friend and a guest who has her own Murder Link. That episode is going to come out a week after this one, but we have previously recorded that in London. So this is our second episode that we're recording in person. And then we're going to have to go back to our digital recordings until we can meet again, but I'm sure it won't be too long.

[00:01:16] Very good.

[00:01:18] Okay, great. So dad, I just want to say it's been really great having you here, by the way.

[00:01:23] Well, thank you. I have had a blast. Everything from going to London for the recording of the David Fuller to going out to eat this afternoon. I can't wait to have some English roast beef.

[00:01:33] Yeah, that's right. We're going out for a traditional English roast later. And yesterday we were able to go see the Piccadilly Sinfonetta at Coventry Cathedral, which is quite different.

[00:01:46] Yes.

[00:01:46] So we're just trying to do as many experiences as we can, but I feel like it's back to reality next week. I'm back to work.

[00:01:52] You're back to work. And yeah, we've got a bit of Christmas spirit as we've been spending time together, but life goes on.

[00:01:59] So without further ado, I think we should get into today's episode.

[00:02:04] This is another one of my dad's Murder Links.

[00:02:06] Thanks. And dad, I'm going to pass it over to you.

[00:02:10] Thank you, baby.

[00:02:11] So this story begins back in 1991.

[00:02:14] We were living in College Park, Georgia, in the house on Clark Howell Highway.

[00:02:19] The house isn't there anymore.

[00:02:21] It was wiped out by the growth of Hartsfield International Airport.

[00:02:25] If you've ever landed or taken off from runway 27,

[00:02:29] you've literally flown right over where the house used to be.

[00:02:32] So back then, we had turned part of the house into a little antique shop that we called Katie's Antiques.

[00:02:41] You were approximately four years old.

[00:02:44] We sold just about anything, furniture, knickknacks, even car marine batteries.

[00:02:50] One day, there was a knock at the door.

[00:02:53] I opened it to find a man in a suit and tennis shoes.

[00:02:57] This was very unusual back then.

[00:03:00] Without a word, he whipped out a badge and shoved it inches from my face.

[00:03:05] Literally.

[00:03:06] I'm with the FBI, he said.

[00:03:09] When the FBI asks questions, they usually already know the answers.

[00:03:14] So my mind started racing.

[00:03:16] What could they possibly want with me?

[00:03:19] The agent asked if we sold batteries.

[00:03:23] He asked specifically, did we sell 9-volt batteries?

[00:03:28] And no, he didn't.

[00:03:30] So, of course, that's what I told him.

[00:03:32] He then pulled out a photo and asked me, do you recognize this man?

[00:03:37] It was a name and face that was all over the news at the time.

[00:03:41] I nodded.

[00:03:42] Yes, I'd seen him.

[00:03:44] The agent asked if I sold typewriters.

[00:03:46] I thought, what?

[00:03:48] But I didn't.

[00:03:49] And he thanked me for my time and left.

[00:03:51] It was later watching the news that I realized why he was asking about the 9-volt batteries and typewriters.

[00:03:59] The batteries were used in the components to make a bomb.

[00:04:03] And the typewriter was used for typing the letters that were used in this case.

[00:04:08] It was one of the most infamous bombing cases in U.S. history.

[00:04:14] In today's episode of Murder Link, I'm sharing the story of the murders of federal judge Robert S. Vance Sr. and civil rights attorney Robert E. Robinson.

[00:04:42] So, Dad, you must have been a bit nervous when the FBI came to your door.

[00:04:46] And I know you, this might sound bad.

[00:04:49] It's not.

[00:04:50] But you have taught me before what a police knock sounds like.

[00:04:53] So I know that as soon as they knocked on that door, you knew something was up.

[00:04:57] It was not the, you know, tap, tap, tappity tap.

[00:04:59] It's usually boom, boom, boom.

[00:05:01] Correct.

[00:05:02] It was a bang, bang.

[00:05:03] You knew something was up before you opened the door.

[00:05:06] But I got to explain that even though it threw me off when he showed me his badge and explained that he was the FBI, I also knew I was not doing anything illegal.

[00:05:16] It just made me really nervous to have this guy here at my house asking me questions about this issue.

[00:05:24] Was it like heightened security because it was the FBI?

[00:05:27] Like, is the idea that it was a federal agent that make you more nervous or you would have felt that way with any law enforcement?

[00:05:34] Well, FBI in particular, them and also ATF, because those are the two that have unlimited resources for their investigations.

[00:05:43] Right.

[00:05:44] Well, I'm glad you weren't doing anything at the time that would have put you under the spotlight.

[00:05:48] I am too.

[00:05:50] Okay.

[00:05:51] All right.

[00:05:51] Take us back to the story, please.

[00:06:17] So, Dad, I would picture that this is a time over this week,

[00:06:22] or however long this is, that people are worried.

[00:06:25] I remember the anthrax thing when it was like, don't open suspicious packages.

[00:06:32] And to me, like hearing you talk about this brings back those memories of if you're in the federal judicial system or government office,

[00:06:40] and you're not expecting something, you might be a little weary.

[00:06:44] I would go further than that and say anyone within the criminal justice system might have been scared in particular.

[00:06:51] Yeah.

[00:06:52] Especially because there wasn't a clear motive at that time on why these people were being targeted by the sound of things.

[00:06:58] Exactly.

[00:06:58] Two days later, another bomb was sent to civil rights attorney Robert E. Robinson in Savannah, Georgia.

[00:07:07] That bomb detonated.

[00:07:08] And although Robinson survived for several hours, he ultimately died from his injuries.

[00:07:14] A third bomb was intercepted at the 11th Circuit Federal Court of Appeals building in Atlanta before it could explode.

[00:07:24] And even a fourth bomb was sent to the Jacksonville NAACP office.

[00:07:32] Fortunately, the employees there had heard about the earlier bombings and didn't open the package.

[00:07:37] Their caution probably saved lives.

[00:07:40] These bombs had released nails as they were exploded, but resembled a device that had exploded four months earlier at another NAACP office in Atlanta.

[00:07:54] This bomb was a tear gas bomb.

[00:07:56] The motive appeared to be revenge for the rape and murder of preschool teacher Julie Love by Emanuel Hammond on July 11, 1988, which we will cover in a future episode of MurderLink.

[00:08:11] This appeared to be the motive because a letter went with the bomb stating any time a black man rapes a white woman in Alabama, Florida, or Georgia,

[00:08:22] Americans for a competent federal judicial system shall assassinate one federal judge, one attorney, and one officer of the NAACP.

[00:08:32] Around 30 threatening letters in total were sent to federal judges, civil rights groups, and even news organizations, including one local TV anchor, Brenda Wood, who appeared on 11 Alive, an Atlanta news program.

[00:08:48] When a federal judge and a permanent attorney are killed, it kicks law enforcement into high gear.

[00:08:54] Several agencies swarmed all over this case.

[00:08:57] That included the FBI and the ATF.

[00:09:01] The ATF is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

[00:09:05] They also handle explosives.

[00:09:08] You also had the U.S. Marshals and the Georgia State Patrol, and even the IRS were investigating this case.

[00:09:15] So for anyone not familiar, once again, the FBI handles federal crimes.

[00:09:21] The ATF was dealing with this because it was an explosive.

[00:09:24] And the U.S. Marshals focus on fugitive apprehension and court security.

[00:09:29] The IRS, they follow the money.

[00:09:32] At first, a man by the name of Robert Wayne O'Farrell was first wrongly identified as a suspect.

[00:09:39] His life was turned upside down in 1990 as hundreds of FBI agents tore up the junk dealers' and part-time Baptist preacher's property.

[00:09:49] Even his septic tank was searched.

[00:09:52] They were looking for evidence on this murders.

[00:09:55] Local, state, and national news reporters descended on the city, following him and his family around.

[00:10:02] The bomber had used a typewriter to type the labels for the mail bombs that matched the typewriters at O'Farrell's store,

[00:10:09] and the FBI for a time considered him a suspect because of that link.

[00:10:14] The break in the case came when an ATF chemist named Lloyd Irwin recognized the details of these bombs matched that of a bomb discovered by a Georgia woman in her home 17 years earlier in 1972.

[00:10:30] The 1972 case involved none other than Walter Leroy Moody Jr.

[00:10:37] Back then, a bomb had exploded in his home after his wife, Hazel, opened a package.

[00:10:45] The bomb had been addressed to a car dealer who would repossess Moody's vehicle.

[00:10:50] The explosion blew away parts of her finger and thigh and wounded her face and shoulder.

[00:10:55] She needed six operations to recover.

[00:10:59] Moody was arrested, convicted of possessing the bomb, and sentenced to three years in prison.

[00:11:05] But Moody wasn't the kind to let it go.

[00:11:08] That conviction haunted him for years.

[00:11:10] He appealed and tried to get it overturned, but his pills were denied each and every time.

[00:11:16] The final denial came in 1989, just a few months before the bombings began.

[00:11:21] For anyone wondering, Hazel divorced Walter shortly after the 1972 conviction and was out of his life completely.

[00:11:30] Investigators connected the 1972 bomb to the 1989 bombs.

[00:11:35] The design and construction were almost identical.

[00:11:38] So when they searched Moody's home, they found overwhelming evidence tying him to the crimes, and Moody was arrested for the 1989 bombings.

[00:11:48] After an extensive investigation, Moody and his second wife, Susan McBride, were arrested on July 13, 1990.

[00:11:57] McBride was released on $250,000 bail within a week of her arrest.

[00:12:02] She later testified against Moody, pursuant to an immunity agreement she had with prosecutors.

[00:12:10] When he went to trial, Moody spent four days on the stand as his only witness, spinning wild stories.

[00:12:19] He claimed a man named Gene Wallace had planted the bombs and even suggested his former attorney, Michael Ford, was involved.

[00:12:27] And for the record, Ford had been Robert Robinson's law partner.

[00:12:33] But Moody's conspiracy theories didn't hold up for the jury.

[00:12:37] On August 20, 1991, the jury found him guilty on all counts.

[00:12:42] He was sentenced to seven life terms plus 400 years.

[00:12:47] So, Dad, his defense was that the person that he sent the bomb to had a law partner that was involved in this conspiracy, and the law partner must have killed him instead of Walter Leroy Moody?

[00:13:02] Yes, he was saying Michael Ford was involved in this case somehow.

[00:13:08] And once again, Michael Ford had been Robert Robinson's law partner.

[00:13:13] But he was also blaming a man named Gene Wallace had planted the bombs.

[00:13:19] No one could ever find out who Gene Wallace was.

[00:13:21] They just, they realized this was a made-up name.

[00:13:25] Oh, right, like an imaginary person.

[00:13:27] Exactly.

[00:13:27] What trips me out the most, kind of listening to this, is his second wife was involved, which meant he nearly almost killed his first wife when she opened the bomb that was meant for the people that repossessed his car.

[00:13:42] So he didn't make his car payments or something defaulted.

[00:13:45] And he was going to kill them over what's probably a 20 or 30 grand car.

[00:13:50] Instead, it injures his first wife.

[00:13:52] And somehow he manages to get a second wife who is somehow involved in all of this if she was arrested and needed an immunity agreement.

[00:14:01] Now, I must say, it sounds like there must be psychological elements here of abuse or maybe domestic violence.

[00:14:07] I don't think we found those links specifically, but he must have had some sort of hold on these women.

[00:14:14] Oh, without a doubt.

[00:14:15] And you had both of these women pretty much doing whatever he told them to.

[00:14:20] But the second one, as well as the first one, both were granted immunity and testified against him.

[00:14:27] Now, as far as him, he was a vindictive man.

[00:14:31] Yeah, he wasn't a nice man, clearly.

[00:14:33] Exactly.

[00:14:35] Okay.

[00:14:36] Yeah.

[00:14:36] If you repossess your car, he's going to kill you with a bomb.

[00:14:38] Exactly.

[00:14:39] Jesus Christ.

[00:14:40] Okay.

[00:14:41] So what happened after he was convicted?

[00:14:45] Well, after his federal conviction in Georgia, Alabama pursued additional charges against him for the murder of Judge Vance.

[00:14:53] Alabama, unlike Georgia, has the death penalty, and they wanted to make sure Moody faced it.

[00:14:59] Moody fought extradition from Georgia to Alabama, but he lost.

[00:15:04] He was convicted in Alabama and sentenced to death on April 19, 2018.

[00:15:11] At the age of 83, Walter Leroy Moody Jr. was executed, making him the oldest person executed in the U.S. since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976.

[00:15:26] Do you think he was trying to avoid the death penalty and that's why he didn't want to leave Georgia?

[00:15:33] Oh, yes, definitely.

[00:15:36] Interesting.

[00:15:36] Like, it just blows my mind.

[00:15:38] So he sends bombs to people that kills them, but he's trying to avoid the death penalty.

[00:15:43] Yeah, and, you know, Judge Robert Vance was against the death penalty as well as his wife, Helen.

[00:15:49] So it just seems ironic that he killed one of the few judges who might have actually been on his side as far as stopping him from receiving the death penalty.

[00:16:00] Exactly.

[00:16:00] And, you know, as I'm talking to you about this, I'm realizing that I can't rationalize his actions.

[00:16:06] But, yeah, in my mind, they just don't compute.

[00:16:09] You can't rationalize the actions of a mentally ill person.

[00:16:13] No.

[00:16:14] And these poor people who received a package might have even thought it was a gift because you're not expecting a package.

[00:16:21] And then ultimately it led to their death.

[00:16:24] Oh, yeah.

[00:16:24] He worked on their trust.

[00:16:25] He played on their trust.

[00:16:27] Yeah.

[00:16:28] And the idea of who would ever send me something to harm me, which is what I think every person thinks.

[00:16:33] Yes.

[00:16:33] It's worth noting that this case involved some of the investigators who later became household names.

[00:16:40] You had Louis Free, who would go on to become the director of the FBI in the 1990s.

[00:16:46] He was appointed special prosecutor in this case alongside Howard Shapiro.

[00:16:53] Robert S. Mueller, known today for leading the Russian election interference investigation in the 2016 presidential election.

[00:17:01] And also, he became the director of FBI in the 2000s.

[00:17:08] Jeff Sessions, who later became U.S. Attorney General, also worked on this case.

[00:17:13] At the time, they weren't the high profile names we know today, but they were already laying the groundwork for their careers in this landmark case.

[00:17:22] Now, you know, in order to put them on a case like this, they had to be really good.

[00:17:29] So it's not surprising that they all became these people who they were.

[00:17:33] Yes. I was just thinking about that when you said earlier about how all of the agencies came to this case immediately.

[00:17:41] They had the best of the best on this case.

[00:17:43] When you have a federal judge being murdered in this way in particular, they aren't going to play.

[00:17:51] They're going to catch whoever this was.

[00:17:53] Yeah. Because they're going to put a stop to this and they're going to make an example for the future people who think of doing something like this.

[00:18:01] Yeah. And I think part of it is we want to protect everyone and we need to protect the judicial representatives.

[00:18:08] But at the end of the day, he was one of their own.

[00:18:11] Yes.

[00:18:12] So it must have been personal.

[00:18:13] Oh, no doubt. No doubt at all.

[00:18:16] They were mad about this.

[00:18:18] They wanted revenge.

[00:18:20] As we said, Walter Leroy Moody Jr. thought he could outsmart the system.

[00:18:25] But this case wasn't just about solving murders.

[00:18:27] It was about protecting the integrity of the justice system.

[00:18:32] In the end, the system won.

[00:18:35] Robert S. Vance Sr., the judge that Moody sent the first bomb to, was appointed by President Jimmy Carter as a judge for the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit and later the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit.

[00:18:50] So this guy was pretty big.

[00:18:52] There's no doubt.

[00:18:53] The prosecutors had speculated that the motive for killing Judge Vance was revenge against Vance's court, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, which had refused to expunge the earlier conviction, the 1972 case.

[00:19:08] Vance, however, had not even been a member of the panel that considered Moody's earlier case.

[00:19:14] So it didn't make any sense in that respect.

[00:19:17] Vance had nothing to do with it.

[00:19:19] It's almost like he was collateral damage.

[00:19:22] Well, it was as if he wanted to target someone in that court.

[00:19:25] And maybe he picked Judge Vance because no one would look at him.

[00:19:29] Why did he have a connection to Judge Vance?

[00:19:31] But yet he could exact his revenge in his own twisted way.

[00:19:37] While on bench, Judge Vance Sr. worked on death penalty cases, including the infamous Ted Bundy case.

[00:19:44] Though he always respected the law, he was personally opposed to the death penalty, as was his wife.

[00:19:49] Though Robert's son, Bob Vance Jr., who also later became a judge, said his mother was willing to make an exception for the murder of his father.

[00:19:58] Who could blame her?

[00:20:01] Moody did reach out to Bob Vance Jr. in January after the Alabama Attorney General's Office asked the Alabama Supreme Court to set an execution date.

[00:20:12] In a one-page handwritten letter, Moody proclaimed his innocence.

[00:20:16] Had my dad been murdered, I would want to know who had done it, he wrote in the letter, which was attached to a handwritten appeal to the Alabama Supreme Court.

[00:20:26] But after attending the federal and state trials, Bob Vance says, I came away without a doubt that they got the right guy.

[00:20:32] So he knew once he went to court and saw the evidence, him being a judge himself, he knew this guy did it.

[00:20:40] Yeah, what a poor family, as you said.

[00:20:42] They lost their father based on someone's vendetta, but it's nothing personally that he did.

[00:20:48] Right, and just think how happy of a life they had, how they were all successful people.

[00:20:53] Yeah.

[00:20:53] Their lives were great until this man stepped into their lives.

[00:20:57] And I did a bit of reading, and as you said, he was opposed to the death penalty, and his son commended, and I suppose taught him, how to set your personal beliefs aside for that of the law.

[00:21:12] Because even Bob Vance Jr., who has got quite a prolific career in the judicial system himself, says that he doesn't like to come out and publicly say whether he's for or against it.

[00:21:23] He's conflicted with the death penalty.

[00:21:25] Even having gone through all of this and had his dad sadly murdered in this way.

[00:21:33] Well, you can say you're against it until someone you love dearly is murdered, and then you'll probably have a second thoughts about your beliefs in it.

[00:21:42] Well, you say that, but I think if anything ever happened to someone that I loved, I would be happy with that person suffering in jail.

[00:21:52] I agree. You're going to suffer more and longer in jail.

[00:21:56] I don't think you're going to be treated real well in prison. Just a thought.

[00:22:00] Yeah, it's not going to be the happiest of times.

[00:22:02] No, especially by the guards for a case like this.

[00:22:06] Oh, yeah, because they'll see the victims as one of their own.

[00:22:09] You got it. Yes, ma'am.

[00:22:11] It is believed by some that it was the other bombing victim, Robert E. Robinson's ties to the NAACP that made him one of the targets of Walter Leroy Moody.

[00:22:21] His family shared that they wanted Moody to suffer and not have a quick and painless death of the lethal injection.

[00:22:27] That was not the type of death their dad had.

[00:22:31] His was a painful, slow death.

[00:22:34] I want him to rot in jail.

[00:22:36] I want him to suffer, said Robinson's daughter, Edwina Holman.

[00:22:40] Holman was 16 when the pipe bomb sent by Moody blew up in her father's law office in Savannah.

[00:22:48] Holman would rather Moody stay in jail for the rest of his life than be put to death.

[00:22:53] The lethal injection was designed to be quick and painless.

[00:22:58] My dad's death was not quick and painless.

[00:23:01] Robinson was a beloved civil rights attorney and a city alderman in Savannah, Georgia.

[00:23:06] He was known for his work in the community and service to numerous indigent clients.

[00:23:11] He was a community leader and activist.

[00:23:14] Robinson served on the executive board and as counsel for the NAACP,

[00:23:19] was an influential leader in the fight for school desegregation in Savannah.

[00:23:24] To honor his legacy, the School of Law has established the Robinson's Scholar Program,

[00:23:31] which benefits underrepresented student populations with ties to Georgia and a passion for public interest law.

[00:23:39] The law school welcomed its inaugural class of Robinson scholars at the beginning of 2020.

[00:23:47] Clearly, he was well-loved and thought highly of in the Savannah area.

[00:23:52] He didn't just help people.

[00:23:54] He helped the most vulnerable, those who had no one else to represent them.

[00:24:00] Also, he became involved in Savannah's politics or law enforcement back when there were still huge racial issues.

[00:24:10] Yeah, I was reading that he was quite brave at that time to be one of the first civil rights leaders in Savannah

[00:24:16] to kind of stand up to what then was considered just normal practice of segregation.

[00:24:22] I agree totally with that.

[00:24:23] And I think he's had a lot named in his honor.

[00:24:26] There was a monument that was put together or a plaque at a park and just different references to him throughout the city.

[00:24:32] And they were well-deserved, without a doubt, from what you read about him.

[00:24:37] Absolutely.

[00:24:38] I mean, Dad, this just sounds like multiple families, but in particular these two families,

[00:24:43] pulled apart by the actions of the madman.

[00:24:46] Yes.

[00:24:48] So, Dad, in this story, in the 1989 bombings, we talk about four being sent.

[00:24:53] There's the one to Vance, the one to Robinson, the one to the 11th Circuit of Appeals head office in Atlanta,

[00:25:02] and the NAACP office in Atlanta.

[00:25:05] And then prior to that, you had a tear gas bomb that was sent to Jacksonville to the NAACP office.

[00:25:13] That was considered a test run.

[00:25:15] And that's what they thought that was him figuring it out.

[00:25:18] Got it.

[00:25:19] Okay.

[00:25:19] So that's five total.

[00:25:21] And then you had the 1972 one that was supposed to go to a car dealership or a car seller,

[00:25:27] but instead his wife opened the package.

[00:25:30] You've got six bombs that this guy is sending out.

[00:25:34] And of all of those bombs, although many people were injured in different circumstances, only two fatalities.

[00:25:42] Yes, only two.

[00:25:43] And that was a luck thing.

[00:25:44] You got to understand, too, with the vigilance of the police, law enforcement did not play around.

[00:25:50] The criminal justice system went after this guy to stop the next one.

[00:25:55] Thank God we have a criminal justice system.

[00:25:59] Yes.

[00:26:00] And it sounds like they were exploring all leads.

[00:26:02] To think that they would come to your antique shop at the back of your house, like it's a small place that people would just stop by to look at some of the stuff that you had on hand, right?

[00:26:12] Yes.

[00:26:12] And they knew that that was where he frequented.

[00:26:14] That's why he was looking for components to his bombs and such was from little junk stores everywhere.

[00:26:20] It's hard to trace.

[00:26:22] Ah, like little mom and pop shops.

[00:26:24] You got it.

[00:26:25] Right.

[00:26:25] Okay.

[00:26:25] And so you just ended up on their radar.

[00:26:27] So I just think about all of the other places they must have visited to try and piece this together.

[00:26:31] Yes, true.

[00:26:33] So it was an elaborate investigation for sure.

[00:26:36] Oh, yes.

[00:26:37] Well, I'm glad he's not with us anymore and that he can't do this to anyone else.

[00:26:42] I feel for the victims, particularly of the two fatalities, Robert Vance Sr.'s family as well as Robert E. Robinson's family.

[00:26:52] But yeah, what a sad case.

[00:26:54] And I'm so glad that more people didn't have that type of injury.

[00:26:58] They weren't killed by the malicious acts of this man that just seemed angry and wanting to put terror into the world.

[00:27:05] Yes, he was a mean person.

[00:27:07] There's no doubt he had many issues.

[00:27:09] And I feel like he had a lot of time on his hands.

[00:27:11] For him to send over 30 letters and create all these bombs, I don't know.

[00:27:16] I just figured he should be at work working or something.

[00:27:19] Well, when he had this revenge in mind, this vindictive attitude, he found something to do with his time.

[00:27:26] It's crazy.

[00:27:28] Wow.

[00:27:29] Okay.

[00:27:29] Well, ending on a more positive note, but bittersweet, I will miss you when you fly home tomorrow.

[00:27:34] But I've had such a great time recording these episodes and then, you know, just spending time with you and mom in general.

[00:27:40] And it's been so great to have you here.

[00:27:42] Well, this is our sixth visit to England.

[00:27:45] So it wasn't anything new to us, but we love it every time.

[00:27:49] It is so much fun.

[00:27:51] Yeah.

[00:27:52] And also, it's a great way to record the podcast.

[00:27:54] Instead of being on a screen and trying to navigate a five-hour time difference when we're both working,

[00:28:00] to be able to sit in a room with you, two rooms actually, because we've done two live episodes since you've been here,

[00:28:05] and planned many other episodes.

[00:28:07] And just be able to have a chat over coffee or beer makes all the difference.

[00:28:12] It makes it easier for you to correct me also.

[00:28:15] Oh, yeah.

[00:28:16] And tell you what to do.

[00:28:18] Right.

[00:28:18] I'm quite good at that.

[00:28:20] All right, everyone.

[00:28:21] Well, thank you for listening to this episode of MurderLink.

[00:28:24] I want you to tune in to next week's because we're going to be doing our live episode.

[00:28:29] So that will be really great for you to listen to.

[00:28:32] And you'll hear from the lovely Claire.

[00:28:33] So it's a different spin as well.

[00:28:35] My dad's not sharing the MurderLink, but we're all there just engrossed in her story.

[00:28:40] Oh, it was a good one, too.

[00:28:41] She was a very good storyteller.

[00:28:44] She did an excellent job of clearly stating that case.

[00:28:47] Yes.

[00:28:48] And her personal connection to it.

[00:28:50] And her personal connection to it.

[00:28:52] Right.

[00:28:52] That's why we're here.

[00:28:53] If you've got your own MurderLink, let us know.

[00:28:55] We're going to be doing these live recording days definitely in London.

[00:28:59] And also, I want to make my way to Atlanta back home at some point.

[00:29:03] But we'll be attending different things all over the world.

[00:29:06] So we would love to have you on.

[00:29:08] If you do have your own MurderLink, you can email us at hello at murderlink.com

[00:29:13] or send us a DM on Instagram.

[00:29:15] We would love to hear your story.

[00:29:17] And what else do people need to do, Dad?

[00:29:20] Well, first of all, thank you to all the listeners.

[00:29:23] And as usual, like, subscribe, share, and please leave a review.

[00:29:29] We would love to hear what you have to say about our podcast.

[00:29:34] Yes.

[00:29:35] Thank you, everyone.

[00:29:36] Thank you so much for listening.

[00:29:37] We really appreciate you.

[00:29:39] And we will see you on the next one.

[00:29:41] Bye.

[00:29:42] Bye.

[00:29:43] Bye.